I believe that everyone has spiritual gifts. I believe that my gifts are the gifts of faith and of discernment. I have never struggled to believe in Him. I have never blamed Him for the bad things that happen to me (and I've had more than my fair share). I just believed. Discernment is a bit harder. I know what's right and wrong. When I imagine things, I imagine them in black and white, good or bad. No grey. When I am doing or saying something that I know God wants me to say, I can feel the shaking of the Holy Spirit. Down to my core. It's not an emotional thing, it's an actual physical feeling. That's not to say I always do what's right. Sometimes I am very willfully disobedient. And sometimes I hit a moral dilemma. A situation that my discernment fails me on. Something that I think I know the answer to, but I can't swear to it. My brain can't handle it when that happens. I have to file it in my head as right or wrong or I just feel dirty inside. Does this make sense? It will.
I'm specifically talking about masturbation here. I think I've basically landed on "masturbation is bad." I know that lust is bad. Therefore masturbation, while lusting after other women/men is bad. No brainer.
Here's where I get a headache... What about masturbation while fantasizing about your spouse? You're not lusting after someone else, so where exactly is the sin? I know that masturbation is a very selfish act and selfishness is not in line with the heart of Christ. Does that make it sinful? This is a point of contention at my house. Right now there is no self pleasure at all because I do not trust Amos to do it with pure thoughts. He contends that this will eventually have to be reevaluated. He has made it very clear that he is not okay with this situation.
Let's suppose that I learn to trust him again. Amos gets his heart in line with God and we're doing good. What do I say when Amos says "I want us to be able to masturbate again. I will only ever think of you." What do I say to that? Is masturbation in and of its self a sin or is it the lusting that makes it sinful? What do you think? Do you have scripture to back it up? I'm open to any thoughts on this. If you feel you need to answer this one anonymously, please feel free to do so. This is a hot topic among the Christian community and I would only ask that you be respectful no matter what your opinion is.
I've thought about this before. I am not one to find masturbation something that is desirable. (I've never done it, and I have no desire to.) My husband doesn't either (and from what he has told me, he hasn't done it before either).
ReplyDeleteWe have discussed it though. Here are my thoughts...and I have no scripture to back it up...they are just simply my personal (uneducated) thoughts.
As long as it is done within marital vows, I think it is ok (meaning not done in sin). If one partner is thinking of the other partner, I don't see the sin in it. The problem (in my opinion) is when it gets out of control or takes over the intimacy of sex. when masturbation takes over a healthy sex life, then it becomes too much. I also think that sexual satisfaction is for both husband and wife. Masturbation seems to be a selfish act- not out of intimacy or closeness to your spouse, rather a means to satisfy a selfish and personal desire. I think masturbation can become a "bandaid" to sexual problems within a marriage that is easier to take care of that way than to actually address the situation.
We have not really had to face this discussion in real life. I'm not sure how I would feel if I knew that Shane was doing it- even if he was thinking of me. I'm not sure how he would feel if I were doing it.
It's not really a topic we have had to deal with within our marriage- so if my thoughts seem uneducated or inexperienced it's because they are.
I am interested to hear what others have to say on the topic. Thanks for posting this.
Hm. MI is about to follow, sorry!
ReplyDeleteMasturbation is something that my husband and I have talked about in depth, especially during our first year together (when he was cheating on me).
I believe that it is natural and something that everyone does at some point in their lives (from young to old). I have never imagined someone while masturbating, never have had to. When I masturbate (if I masturbate) it's because I accept that my sex drive is higher than my husbands and he can't always meet my needs. It's purely to find a release in an area where he is unable to help me. He, on the other hand, sees it more as a sin because he has used it in purely sinful ways for the majority of his life. That and he has some serious hang ups from past events (namely molestation). God created us to be sexual creatures, it's one of our main goals in life. To deny that side of us, in my opinion anyway, is wrong and dishonest. I've never understood why so many Christians are so embarrassed and hard on those who masturbate, why they're so scared of sex.
I honesty believe that masturbation on occasion is healthy and good so long as it doesn't take over pleasuring your spouse, doesn't interfere with intimate time with your spouse, and doesn't replace them in a sexual way (imagining someone else, etc). So while I may masturbate, I'm always up for sex (high, high sex drive lol), though my husband when he masturbated would no longer have time for me, wouldn't touch me or be intimate with me. It was consuming our love life completely.
My husband knows that even though I pleasure myself, it is never as good or fulfilling as sex with him.
Did that make any sense whatsoever?
This is so interesting to read. I've looked the Bible over and I've dug all over the internet to find something that lines up with my thoughts on the subject and I've basically come up with this analogy:
ReplyDeleteAlcohol is not a sin. Drunkenness is , but not drinking in and of itsself. So if I were to go out and have a drink, everything would be fine. Now... let's take an Alcoholic to a bar. Suddenly everything is different. Does the alcoholic have the ability to stop after only a drink or two? If he doesnt have that self control, was it I who sinned by bringing him to the bar to begin with and causing a stumbling block?
Amos is a sex addict... so assuming I trust him again, where does masturbation fit with us? This link is the closest I've found to meeting my views on the subject. Every time I research, I end up here. It's a little rough around the edges (at one point the author uses the word "dimwitted") but the point is clear.
http://www.acts17-11.com/dialogs_masturbation.html
I have never commented before. I found your blog on Jill's blog the other day and I'm totally addicted! Your story is incredible, as are your raw emotions.
ReplyDeleteMy husband looked at pornography off and on while we dated. I knew about it and it wasn't life consuming. Just before we got married his mom caught him looking and she told him he had to tell me (not knowing I already knew) he called me (with her standing behind him) and told me. It was all I could do to not laugh because he was caught by his mom. He promised he'd never look again and to my knowledge he hasn't (I check the history frequently)
My 2 cents on your question is this:
Anyone can become a sex addict. Anyone can become a porn addict. Just as anyone can become an alcoholic or a drug addict. Even having 1 drink can, in some, conjure up addictive behaviors. My sister, for example, started drinking socially at a young age and now at 29 has no license and is waiting for sentencing on three DUI charges.
I am LDS and we have very strict standards that are set forth to keep things like drugs, alcohol and porn away from ourselves and our families.
I went to the church website and found the following information. It wasn't super descriptive to masturbation, but it does go in depth on the issue of pornography.
http://lds.org/study/topics/chastity?lang=eng
Another thing that my husband and I always try to remember is that Church authority (our Church, anyway) stops at the bedroom door. There are no "rules" that govern the sex life of a married couple, however it's strongly counseled that both partners should be on the same page with EVERY aspect of their sex life. If one spouse wants to masturbate and the other is fine with it, then that's something they can do together (masturbation alone is a sin. Even if they are thinking of their spouse because it leads to other things) but at any time if one partner isn't 100% comfortable with what's going on, they both need to talk about it and come to an agreement on what to do.
We actually talked about this the other day and my husband said he read that masturbation can lead to homosexual behavior. We were trying to establish that connection and other than a few thoughts here and there we have yet to see that connection. It also leads to wanting more. More sex. Which leads to porn. That leaves one wanting more and more until the porn no longer satisfies the "itch" and they seek an outlet elsewhere (flirting, cheating, etc.)
It's just like marijuana. People try to tell you it's not a drug. You can't be addicted. You can stop and start at any time. This couldn't be further from the truth. No matter how "harmless" the pot might be, eventually the user will crave MORE.
For us, we stay away from things (including sexual activities) that might arouse unwholesome thoughts and feelings in ourselves and our spouse.
As far as addressing this issue in the Bible, I am also not sure. I can only speak of my personal feelings on the subject.
ReplyDeleteI am from the camp that I believe most (if not all) people experience this at one point in their life.
My issue with masturbation starts with the deception. If my spouse were doing this on a regular basis, I would want to know. If they felt they needed to hide it, then that would become an issue. Questions would immediately begin to asked... "Why are they hiding it?" "Is there more to this than meets the eye?" "Is there something else they are hiding?" And on and on the questions would go.
While I think there can be healthy marriages(relationships) that have one individual or both masturbating, it's a sensitive issue that needs to be entered into with lots of open communication. Each person needs to be okay with it. Once deception enters into the picture, an entire different monster will be created.
Great discussion.
Anon, you hit a chord with me when you said "And on and on the questions would go." That's how it is for me. Every answer inspires two new questions so the barrage of demands and questions are never ceasing.
ReplyDeleteI think I believe that biblically speaking masturbation can have a place in marriages with a healthy sex life and with couples who have a healthy outlook on sex. However, I don't think I happen to be in one of those marriages. I think I've landed on this... Masturbation is not appropriate in MY marriage. Not for now. When trust is rebuilt, I will reevaluate the situation, but just as an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic, a porn/sex addict will always be an addict. That's not to say that we can't have a healthy sex life, but I just don't see how masturbation can be a part of it.
Thank you ladies for all your comments. They've all been interesting and inspired in some way.